Religion

Right Wing Round-Up

Right Wing Leftovers

  • Just 6,000 people have RSVP’d so far for Perry’s The Response.
  • A Houston judge dismissed the Freedom From Religion Foundation’s lawsuit against Perry.

Right Wing Round-Up

  • Florida Independent: Florida Family Policy Council To Host Bachmann At Annual Policy Awards Dinner.
  • Good-As-You: Maggie Not Even Faking It Anymore: NOM Is Essentially A Religious Group.
  • Note: We will be attending an all staff retreat tomorrow afternoon (7/28) but will be back on Friday.

Right Wing Round-Up

  • TPM: At Allen West-Sponsored Event, Group Paints Thousands Of Muslims As Terrorists.

Right Wing Leftovers

  • Frank Graffney says the terrorist attacks in Norway demonstrates the urgency to fight…you guessed it, Sharia law.
  • Live Prayer’s Bill Keller says that while a Christian who commits acts of violence is an apostate, “a Muslim commits acts of terror, killing innocent people, they are simply following the teachings of their false religion.”
  • Michael Brown, author of A Queer Thing Happened To America, gives his take on the Norway attacks: “Sadly, the atmosphere in our country has become so toxic that venerable ministries like Focus on the Family and the American Family Association have been branded as “hate groups” by the Southern Poverty Law Center, while People for the American Way sends out regular warnings about evangelical Christian leaders on its RightWingWatch website. And this will surely intensify in the days to come in the wake of the tragedy in Norway.”

Heck: Bachmann Clinic Would've Been Disreputable If It Didn’t Offer Reparative Therapy

Conservative columnist and radio host Peter Heck is defending Michele and Marcus Bachmann against what he calls the “inquisition” against them following news that their clinic practiced “ex-gay” reparative therapy. Heck writes that the Bachmanns, not the gay and lesbian patients who have to go through “ex-gay” therapy, are the real victims of the story, and contends that the “real scandal would be if a supposed Christian clinic like Bachmann's didn't offer this kind of hope for those with unwanted same-sex attraction”:

Break out the pitchforks and light the torches! The leftist media is in the midst of launching a modern-day version of the Salem Witch Trials. Except this time the target isn't those who blaspheme against the Christian religion, but rather those who practice it. The inquisition began almost two weeks ago when Diane Sawyer and her ABC World News Tonight team christened a very provocative and alarming "investigation" into the beliefs of Republican presidential candidate Michele Bachmann and her husband, Dr. Marcus Bachmann.



Along with the hypocrisy comes the blatant inconsistency. Irreligious, or at least humanistic liberals, are always quick to point to the Constitutional ban on "religious tests" for federal office when they are touting one of their godless candidates. While butchering the context within which this Article VI prohibition was written, liberals tell everyone who will listen that a person's religious beliefs (or unbelief) are immaterial in considering their qualifications. But then why does Chris Matthews want Republican candidates grilled over whether they believe in a literal interpretation of the Genesis creation account? And why does ABC tout the work of a left-wing group "investigating" the Bachmann family's religious views on homosexuality? Apparently the left believes in selective application of the ban.

Finally, and most importantly, the hate and discrimination these liberal media types are stoking by their actions cannot be excused or overlooked. ABC's investigation implies that there is something scandalous about a Christian clinic that seeks to use prayer and biblical teaching to turn a person away from what the Bible calls sin. Um...is ABC seriously unaware that this is what Christians do? The real scandal would be if a supposed Christian clinic like Bachmann's didn't offer this kind of hope for those with unwanted same-sex attraction.

Right Wing Round-Up

PFAW: PFAW Celebrates Certification of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell Repeal

Sarah Posner @ Religion Dispatches: Excuses, Excuses: The Polite Regrets of Governors Bailing on Perry's Prayer Rally.

Igor Volsky @ Think Progress: GOProud: Gays Need Guns, Not Hate Crimes Legislation.

Alvin McEwen: Maggie Gallagher's Hypocritical Whine About Corruption

Adam Serwer @ The American Prospect: Stop Using Moozlem Words!

Right Wing Round-Up

Fischer Says Only Those Without Reason, Logic or Arguments Call People Nazis

And now for a post from our we-couldn't-make-it-up-if-we-tried department.

In our last post, we noted how Bryan Fischer had taken his "gays = Nazis" allegations to their logical conclusion by declaring that Adolf Hitler himself was gay.

But in the segment directly preceding that, Fischer kicked off the program by stating that somewhere on the internet, someone had referred to him as a "Nazi gas bag" ... and claimed that when people start calling you a Nazi, it is proof that they do not have any legitimate arguments to make:

And by the way, ladies and gentlemen, this is a clear indication that the Left has lost the argument and the debate in public policy. Because name-calling is the first refuge of a man who does not have an argument. As soon as someone starts calling you names, then realize they're out of ammunition, they're out of arguments. They can't reason with you any longer, they don't have facts on their side, they don't have reason on their side, they don't have logic on their side, they don't have history on their side, they don't have research on their side, they don't have science on their side so they start calling you things like a "Nazi gas bag."

Here, ladies and gentlemen, is Bryan Fischer saying just two months ago that gays are Nazis:

The homosexual agenda is just like Islam: there is no room for dissent, there is no room to leave, once you're in, you can't leave. Muslims won't let you leave, homosexuals won't let you leave - if you leave, they claim you're faking it, so there's no way out. There's no freedom of choice, there's no freedom of religion - if you have religious views about homosexual behavior, you are squashed.

I mean, ladies and gentlemen, they are Nazis. Homosexual activists, when it comes to freedom of speech, are Nazis. When it comes to freedom of religion, they are Nazis. There is no room in their world dissent, there is no room in their world for disagreement, there is no room in their world for criticism. You criticize homosexual behavior, they tag you as a bigot and a homophobe and then they got to work to silence you just like the Roman Catholic Church did in the days of Galileo - it's no different; it's the Spanish Inquisition all over again.

Ladies and gentlemen, they are Nazis. Do not be under any illusions about what homosexual activists will do with your freedoms and your religion if they have the opportunity. They'll do the same thing to you that the Nazis did to their opponents in Nazi Germany.

Bryan Fischer is a lot of things ... but self-aware is not one of them.

Following Fischer's Logic, First Amendment Doesn't Apply To Mormons Either

Bryan Fischer has been demanding a ban on the construction of mosques in the United States for a year now and argues that such a prohibition is entirely constitutional because the First Amendment does not apply to Islam.

In fact, as Fischer is fond of saying, the First Amendment does not apply to any "non-Christian religions":

[T]he First Amendment was written neither to guarantee freedom of religion to Muslims or Buddhists or Hindus nor to prohibit their free exercise of religion. It wasn’t written about them one way or another.

It was written for one specific purpose: to protect the free exercise of the Christian religion ... We must be clear: the First Amendment does not prohibit the free exercise of alternative religions, but neither does it guarantee it. It simply does not address the issue at all.

In defense of this view, Fischer has lately started arguing that prohibitions on polygamy prove that "non-Christian religions" (i.e., Mormonism) do not have First Amendment protections:

That the free exercise clause provides no guarantee for non-Christian religions is made clear in the case of Mormonism. It was part and parcel of the “free exercise” of the Mormon faith to have as many wives as you wanted. Congress said nope. In fact, the Mormon church was required to prohibit plural marriages as a condition of Utah’s statehood.

(It’s worth noting in passing that the Mormon church has never renounced plural marriage. It has simply instructed its followers to obey federal law in the matter.)

Idaho came into the union in 1890, at virtually the same time as Utah, and the first page of Idaho’s state constitution makes it explicitly clear that the free exercise of religion shall in no sense be construed to justify plural marriages.

...

In fact, the Republican Party came into existence in 1854 to combat two evils: slavery and the pernicious Mormon practice of plural marriage, what the original GOP called "those twin relics of barbarism." (Let me point out that I’m talking about the LDS faith as it existed then, not as it exists today.)

Clearly, then, as our political experiment with the Mormon faith makes clear, there is no guarantee of the free exercise of religion for religions which are outside the stream of historic Christianity, as Mormonism is. (It denies the Trinity, the virgin birth of Christ, the unique deity of Christ, his all-sufficient atoning sacrifice on the cross, and the completeness of God’s revelation in the Old and New Testaments.)

Following Fischer's logic, it only stands to reason that local communities likewise have the power to deny Mormons permission to build temples in their communities as well.

Fischer claims that the Mormon church "never renounced plural marriage" and therefore it must be entirely acceptable for local officials who do not want Mormons or their "pernicious" teachings polluting their communities to deny them permission to build houses of worship, precisely because the First Amendment does not apply to "non-Christian religions" like Mormonism. 

Parker: "Too Many Blacks Still Don't Want To Be Free"

Religious Right activist and unsuccessful Republican congressional candidate Star Parker has a new column today lamenting that African Americans have yet to embrace her ultraconservative ideology. The outspoken anti-choice and anti-gay activist bemoans that African Americans are still predominantly Democrats since they don’t watch Fox News and because “too many blacks still don’t want to be free” despite advances in civil rights. Parker, who received just 23% of the vote in her failed bid for Congress, writes:

The message that massive government spending and borrowing does not grow the economy has not reached blacks. Rather, like our president, they seem to believe that the problem is we just haven't yet dug the fiscal hole deep enough.

Is this a racial thing? Whites will jump off the ship run by a black captain in a minute while blacks will ride it out until it hits the iceberg?

No, I don't think so. I think it's both a liberal information thing and a moral thing.

The liberal information thing is that blacks overwhelmingly get their information from liberal sources.

Blacks watch CNN and MSNBC, not Fox. They listen to urban black radio.



But I think more corrosive is the moral thing.

Almost a half century since the passage of the Civil Rights Act, too many blacks still don't want to be free and accept the responsibilities that go with it. Too many blacks still believe that the condition of their lives is caused by what someone else does or has.

It is sad that this is true despite the fact that blacks go to church more often, pray more often, and say religion plays a central part in their life more than any other ethnic group in the nation.

Why does a people so inclined to turn to God so readily violate the Tenth Commandment's prohibition on covetousness and measure themselves in terms of what others have? And then use this sin to justify violating the Eighth Commandment and give government license to steal what others have in order to redistribute?

Perhaps most fundamentally, how can a church-going people buy into the materialism of socialism?

Perry Rally Host Don Wildmon Says Liberals "Hate Christians"

Don Wildmon, the president of the American Family Association and the official host of Texas Gov. Rick Perry’s The Response prayer rally, said onTruth that Transforms radio program that liberals “hate Christians.” He told Jerry Newcomb of Truth in Action ministries (formerly Coral Ridge Ministries) that the Religious Right needs to use the Internet to disseminate their message or else they will “hand it over” to the left and the “homosexual agenda.” Wildmon’s views are right in line with those of AFA’s spokesman, Bryan Fischer, who has declared that “liberals hate God, liberals hate religion, liberals hate faith, liberals hate Christianity.”

Wildmon was speaking to Newcomb to promote his book Speechless: Silencing Christians, about how “homosecularists” are using the “(made up) bullying problem” to impose the “homosexual indoctrination of children” and hate crime laws to outlaw Christian preaching.

And not turn this tool over to the liberals who really, and I know I’m using this word, who hate Christians…. Hollywood hates Christians. The only thing standing between, let’s just say the homosexual movement, homosexual marriage and the whole homosexual agenda, is the church. And not just the whole church but the evangelical dedicated Christians, and they are hated by the liberal-left because we stand in way, we stand in the way, of their achieving of what it is they want to achieve.

What Is The Difference Between Bryan Fischer And Herman Cain? There Is None

There is a reason why Bryan Fischer really likes the candidacy of Herman Cain, and it is because Cain and Fischer hold many of the same bigoted views.

Over the weekend, Cain reinforced this fact when he told Chris Wallace of Fox News that communities ought to be able to ban the construction of mosques:

WALLACE: But couldn’t any community then say they don’t want a mosque in our community?

CAIN: They could say that. Chris, lets go back to the fundamental issue that the people are basically saying they’re objecting to. They’re objecting to the fact Islam is both a religion and a set of laws, Sharia law. That’s the difference between any one of our other traditional religions where it’s just about religious purposes. The people in the community know best, and I happen to side with the people in Murfreesboro.

WALLACE: You’re saying any community, if they want to ban a mosque?

CAIN: Yes. They have a right to do that. That’s not discriminating based upon religion.

Fischer, of course, loved it precisely because he has been calling on communities to ban the building of mosques for a year now.

In addition, Cain and Fischer both share a view that Muslims ought to be banned from serving in any presidential administration; a position Fischer reiterated on his program last Friday:

So good for Herman Cain. He started off strong when it came to the Muslim deal - will not have a Muslim in my cabinet, he tried to finesse that, walk it back; shouldn't have done it, should have held firm.

I mean, there's no way a Muslim should be in anybody's cabinet in the United States of America because their ultimate devotion is not to the Constitution, it is to sharia law. That's what their God, their holy book and their prophet tell them is the highest law in the land. That's where their ultimate allegiance is going to be. It's impossible for them to take an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States and to be able to do that with any sort of a clear conscience.

It is of concern to anyone else that a Republican presidential candidate holds views that are exactly the same as those espoused by the Religous Right's most notorious bigot

It ought to be.

Rick Perry Ally Bickle Says Marriage Equality Is "Rooted In The Depths Of Hell"

Texas Gov. Rick Perry has turned to organizers from the International House of Prayer (IHOP) to put togetherThe Response prayer rally, of which IHOP founder Mike Bickle is an official endorser. As RWW previously reported, Bickle believes that Oprah Winfrey is the harbinger of the Antichrist who will help introduce a one-world religion based on the principles of tolerance and justice. In separate speeches at IHOP’s annual Onething conference, which have been posted on GOD TV, Bickle declared that gay rights and marriage equality are signs of the “Last Days.”

Bickle predicts that “the homosexual agenda will become so intense” that marriage will not only be “blurred and defiled” but also become a crime across the world. He also claims that “the gay marriage agenda” is “rooted in the depths of hell” and influenced by “demon spirits,” accelerating the coming of the End Times.

Paul said in the Last Days, in the Last Days they’ll depart from the faith, they’ll listen to demon spirits, and the homosexual agenda will become so intense that before the Lord returns marriage will be outlawed in various parts of the earth. It really will be. Marriage will actually be an illegal institution; they will forbid people to marry because of all the economic and social dimensions. The conflict that’s going to emerge as the homosexual agenda increases on a global level, pay attention, it’s exploding in this hour. All of these signs are happing at a historic level, most of these at the highest point of history and they’re all happening together.



I’ll tell you where this thing is going. Marriage will not only be the sanctity of marriage blurred and defiled, marriage in some parts of the earth will be outlawed. Marriage as an institution will be forbidden in parts of the earth as one of the Signs of the Times. The gay marriage agenda, which is rooted in the depths of Hell, this is not about love, this is deception.

Right Wing Round-Up

Right Wing Leftovers

  • Michele Bachmann's church thinks the Pope is the Antichrist.
  • The Freedom From Religion Foundation is suing to stop Rick Perry's prayer rally.
  • I am looking forward to Bryan Fischer complaining again about how the nation is feminizing the Medal of Honor.
  • Peter LaBarbera says giving gay equality just makes Muslim hate the US even more.
  • I think it is funny to see David Brody complain about other reporter's lack of journalism standards. 
  • The Family Leader's Bob VanderPlaats does damage control.

Looking to 2012, Robison More Focused On "What" Than "Who"

It has been reported that James Robison has been gathering Religious Right leaders and mobilizing them to defeat President Obama in 2012.  While some reports that have suggested that Robison is seeking to rally them behind Texas Gov. Rick Perry, Robison himself is making it clear that he is less interested in "who" the candidate is than he is in laying out "what" needs to be done to save America:

I am declaring to everyone with ears to hear: Now is the time to return to God. Stand up like a mighty army! Pierce the darkness, storm the gates of hell, set captives free, correct our course, reclaim the land, make God the “who” in our personal and national life, and point people to the “what.” We will never find the right “who” until we know the right “what.” When the population understands the “what to do,” we can find the “who” to help lead and insist that every “who” does the right “what.” 

To that end, Robison is laying out just "what" needs to be done so that Christians can decide on "who" will be the best candidate to support: 

  • As the Pledge of Allegiance states, we are a nation under God; and as our currency proclaims, our trust is in God—not “gov.” If national leaders do not acknowledge what America’s founders understood concerning the importance of divine providence, there will be no recovery.
  • All life must be protected and seen as precious with unlimited potential however unexpected or planned for. Remember, we can clearly learn from Nazi Germany that something can be legal but also very evil (i.e., the horrific extermination of the Jews and others considered less than perfect or unimportant).
  • America must stand in the best interests of Israel against the evil forces calling for its destruction.
  • Marriage is between a man and a woman and must be viewed as sacred. The strength of our nation depends on strong families, and national policy must protect marriage.
  • There are moral absolutes. No person’s failure reduces or redefines the standards carved in stone by the finger of God and revealed in His Word. We must find a way to stop judges and courts from misinterpreting the Constitution and writing their own laws.
  • Success and prosperity may be mishandled by some, but the potential for success that produces opportunity for all and prosperity at different levels is not the problem. Those we elect must keep the free market free, healthy and under the influence of people who understand the importance of personal responsibility.
  • There are forces of good and evil, and they must be wisely and rightly defined, discerned and resisted. A strong national defense is critical. Radical Islam and terrorism are serious threats. Extreme environmental activism is, also.
  • Depending on the federal government as our source is idolatry. We must control it, or it will control us. Stop the madness! Hitler believed that Germany needed a government over the people, not of the people. God deliver us from this kind of insanity.
  • Out-of-control spending, mismanagement of the people’s money and excessive, intrusive regulation is as wrong and immoral as stealing. Spending must be brought under control now, at whatever sacrifice. This does not include foolishly giving the government more of the people’s money to waste or mismanage.
  • We the people” must be understood to mean that we all have a “dog in the show.” We are all responsible. We can’t just lay the load and responsibility on others, no matter how many twisted thinkers try to play the blame game. The opportunities and possibilities to succeed is not the problem. Don’t blame opportunity, begin inspiring and teaching responsibility. We must find a way for every citizen to help in some way shoulder the load. This can be accomplished without being unfair and riding on anyone’s back.
  • Deal with excessive, foolish taxation and revamp the tax code along with the IRS so we can rejoice together because it will stimulate economic growth. This would create jobs and ultimately enable us to better assist the suffering, the weak, helpless and poor—not with just a handout, but with compassionate hands extended. The church can and must set the example.
  • Let the people go. Turn them loose and behold the miracle made possible when people are truly free to be productive while assuming personal responsibility. Nehemiah rebuilt the wall in 52 days. Impossible? Not with God!
  • The church must be delivered from the spirit of religion and filled with the Holy Spirit, leading us to the supernatural unity that produces holy harmony. National leaders must rise above partisanship and reason together, seeking effective solutions to serious challenges.

Right Wing Round-Up

Right Wing Round-Up

Rick Perry Partners With Pastor Who Thinks Oprah Is The Precursor To The Antichrist

Right Wing Watch has documented the close ties between Gov. Rick Perry’s The Response prayer rally and the International House of Prayer (IHOP), not the least of which is that IHOP’s affiliated The Call rallies appear to serve as a model for The Response. Mike Bickle, the founder and executive director of IHOP -- who along with Lou Engle made IHOP a prominent force in the Religious Right – is also an official endorser of The Response. Like Engle, Bickle is a radical who pushes extraordinary End Times prophesies.

In an undated GOD TV video about the End Times, Bickle claims that Oprah Winfrey will be one of the principal “pastors” of the “Harlot Babylon,” which he says is the precursor to the coming of the Antichrist. Bickle predicts that progressive Christians and humanitarian activists will work with Winfrey to create a unified one-world religion based on tolerance that will ultimately be used by the Antichrist to take global power and introduce demon-worship. Bickle goes on to argue that the End Times will see marriage outlawed due to the legalization of same-sex marriage: “Marriage as an institution will be forbidden in parts of the earth, as one of the signs of the times, the gay marriage agenda, which is rooted in the depths of hell, this is not about love, this is deception.”

Bickle: The Harlot Babylon is preparing the nations to receive the Antichrist. The Harlot Babylon will be a religion of affirmation, toleration, no absolutes, a counterfeit justice movement. They will feed the poor, have humanitarian projects, inspire acts of compassion for all the wrong reasons. They won’t know it, beloved they will be sincere, many of them, but their sincerity will not in any way lessen the impact of their deception. The fact that they are sincere does not make their deception less damaging. I believe that one of the main pastors, as a forerunner to the Harlot movement, it’s not the Harlot movement yet, is Oprah. She is winsome, she is kind, she is reasonable, she is utterly deceived, utterly deceived. A classy woman, a cool woman, a charming woman, but has a spirit of deception and she is one of the clear pastors, forerunners to the Harlot movement.
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Religion Posts Archive

Miranda Blue, Friday 10/07/2011, 12:32pm
The Southern Baptist Convention’s Robert Jeffress, a leading figure on the Religious Right, has announced that he will endorse Rick Perry for president later today at the Values Voter Summit. Jeffress’s choice of Perry is not hugely surprising – in the past, he has attacked Mitt Romney for his Mormonism, saying, “Even though he talks about Jesus as his Lord and savior, he is not a Christian. Mormonism is not Christianity. Mormonism is a cult” and saying that Mormons “worship a false god.” In 2010, Jeffress urged Christians to vote solely based on... MORE
Miranda Blue, Wednesday 10/05/2011, 11:20am
This weekend, nearly every major GOP presidential candidate, along with the top two Republicans in the House of Representatives, will speak at the Values Voter Summit, an annual gathering of the leaders of the movement to integrate fundamentalist Christianity and American politics. The candidates – Mitt Romney, Rick Perry, Michele Bachmann, Herman Cain, Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich – and the congressmen – House Speaker John Boehner and Majority Leader Eric Cantor – will join a who’s who of the far Right at the event. The organizers of... MORE
Kyle Mantyla, Thursday 09/29/2011, 5:38pm
Candace Chellew-Hodge @ Religion Dispatches: New Study Touts Success of “Praying Away the Gay." Carlos Maza @ Equality Matters: NOM Promotes Article Blaming Gays For “Full-Blown Paganization” Of America. Igor Volsky @ Think Progress LGBT: Florida Councilwoman Rants Against ‘Homosexuals Who Want Favoritism.’ James Crugnale @ Mediaite: Herman Cain Tells Wolf Blitzer That He Could Not Support Rick Perry As Nominee. David Weigel @ Slate: Ann Coulter, Gay Icon, Defends Don't Ask Don't Tell. Eric Hananoki @ County Fair: Pat... MORE
Kyle Mantyla, Thursday 09/29/2011, 12:28pm
As mentioned in our earlier post, we are once again asking Republican leaders who will be attending the upcoming Values Voter Summit to denounce Bryan Fischer's long history of unmitigated bigotry. This time we are focusing on Mitt Romney because, according to the conference schedule, he will be speaking immediately before Fischer on Saturday morning. Our efforts in the past to get anyone within the GOP or Religious Right to condemn Fischer's relentless bigotry have not amounted to much, mainly because nobody within the movement seems to be particularly bothered by it, which is why GOP... MORE
Kyle Mantyla, Thursday 09/29/2011, 12:28pm
As mentioned in our earlier post, we are once again asking Republican leaders who will be attending the upcoming Values Voter Summit to denounce Bryan Fischer's long history of unmitigated bigotry. This time we are focusing on Mitt Romney because, according to the conference schedule, he will be speaking immediately before Fischer on Saturday morning. Our efforts in the past to get someone, anyone within the GOP or Religious Right to condemn Fischer's relentless bigotry have not amounted to much, mainly because nobody within the movement seems to be particularly bothered by it, which is... MORE
Kyle Mantyla, Thursday 09/29/2011, 10:57am
Shortly after Gov. Rick Perry's giant prayer rally in August, organizers started emailing those who had registered for the event, urging them to get active in a new Religious Right voter mobilization effort called Champion The Vote. It turns out that this registration and mobilization effort is being backed by millions of dollars from Rick Perry supporters who are dedicated to doing what they can to register tens of millions of Christian voters in the coming years in an effort to take back America. Yesterday, Champion The Vote's Bill Dallas was a guest on The Janet Mefferd Show where he... MORE
Brian Tashman, Monday 09/26/2011, 11:24am
Pavone’s Tangled Web May Have Led To His Downfall After Bishop Patrick Zurek of the Archdiocese of Amarillo, Texas, recalled Frank Pavone of Priests for Life over financial concerns, many of Pavone’s allies lashed out at Zurek. The Center For Bio-Ethical Reform said it would picket Roman Catholic churches in Amarillo for “hindering efforts to protect the safety of unborn children” and Operation Rescue President Troy Newman said Pavone’s suspension was “outrageous,” slamming Zurek for “casting a shadow where none should be.” Pavone and his... MORE